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Talk:Cycle
As the cycle poem points out, an Athyra reign is followed by a reborn Phoenix, which is then followed by a decadent Phoenix, then by a Dragon. But Tortaalik seems pretty decadent, and Zerika is nothing if not reborn. Wrong order, no? I'm not the first to note this: someone recently pointed this out on "Cracks and Shards", believing it to be a "crack", or inconsistency, in the story. And Steven replied that it was "emphatically not a crack", but didn't clarify. So can anyone explain why it makes sense? -- Steve the Younger 22:53, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC) --- I see three possibilities. 1. Norathar does not directly follow Zerika. Somehow another Phoenix shows up and makes a royal mess of things in an amazingly short time. (Doesn't seem very likely). 2. This kind of thing just happens at the end of a Great Cycle (Which this is). 3. The duality of the Phoenix in the poem is imperfectly expressed, and the order is how it should be. Myself, I'd say the last is probably the closest to the truth. --Majikjon ::Interestingly, I remember that in Tortaalik's last days, Tortaalik himself mentions to Khaavren that he is expected to be decadent, and hopes not to be. Also, in Orca (book), Zerika is referred to as a "reborn Phoenix". So the poem being backward makes the most sense, too. But then why isn't that an inconsistency? :: -- Steve the Younger 07:21, 7 Oct 2005 (UTC) ---- How about this as an explanation? There is only one House of the Phoenix, but there are two types of Phoenixes - decadent and reborn. And decadent Phoenixes would be far more common, but reborn Phoenixes would make up for the decadence of their relatives by outshining them all in the nobility of their natures. This may also explain the whole "'Real' Phoenixes are only born when a phoenix (animal) flys overhead" thing (something I've never bought off on as an idea) - that reborn Phoenixes occur as rarely as phoenixes flying overhead when a Phoenix is born, and Vlad misunderstood simile for truth. Or perhaps, as a compromise, it is just that phoenixes are only drawn to the birth of Reborn Phoenixes, which is what the saying really means - and most others of House Phoenix are born without any such attending phenomena. Now, as for the Cycle poem - I would suspect that decadent Phoenixes get the primary position simply because decadent Phoenix Emperors have been far more common in Dragaeran history (which is in turn because decadent Phoenixes are more common in general). And the last line is given over to describing the Reborn Phoenix because, well, the poet would theoretically want to end on a note of hope and rebirth, not total despair. Hope can be a powerful emotional hook... --Davdi 21:35, 16 Oct 2005 (UTC) How could the cycle have predated the Jenoine? In Jhereg I'm pretty sure Aliera said that the 17 houses were created by the Jenoine (except Jhereg). Were the Jenoine influenced in their experiments by the Cycle? German translation I know that's usually not the place to aks such questions, but maybe someone can help me with this: I'm looking for an (official) german translation of the Cycle poem. Mainly the Yendi and Orca parts. Obviously it's hard to find any german informations on these books online. So, if maybe someone has a german book, that features the Cycle poem, I would appreciate any help on this. =) 19:05, August 18, 2016 (UTC)